A conversation with Stan

As promised earlier this week, here is a conversation I had with my neighbor, collective member, KC jazz lodestone, educator, and occasional smart ass Stanton Kessler. I've edited it down from the hour and a half long original recorded conversation that I was thinking about putting up as an audio file. But I use too many vocal pauses and Stan and I have a habit of continually interrupting each other that doesn't make for good listening. Enjoy. 

Hunter Long: So you were apart of the first Black House session and now you’re back for the third, why’d you come back and how is this session different?

 

Stan Kessler: I came back because I enjoyed the first session so much. I also knew that different players were going to be doing it, Matt Otto and Chris Burnett, and I wanted to be around that creative energy with those guys involved. Having Amy and Candace is great since their instruments bring such a new sound and texture. You can’t deny that the female energy changes things in a real positive way. Musically it doesn’t matter but it creates a balance.

 

I think it’s funny that you mentioned that knowing Chris and Matt were going to come play was part of your decision to come back because I’m relying a bit and your three’s name value to attract musicians. I really think that your participation in the first session really helped us out in setting this thing up and I really appreciate that.

 

I’m not sure I was a factor but that makes me feel good.

 

I was wanting to get your perspective on technology’s affect on learning to play. Theoretically I should be able to learn faster than you did because of the technological advances. One think that I keep thinking about and that I notice when listening to other people’s music, is that I wonder are my ears as strong since I haven’t had to learn how to play the music I’m writing on the piano? I can do some things much quicker but I’m not sure I’m acquiring the skills I would have if I was doing things manually.

 

When I was learning how to play jazz it was very simple. You had a turntable and you played with records and you played with your heroes. You learned how to imitate them and that’s also how you learned tunes. There were a few fakebooks out but you basically learned everything by ear and by learning things that way they really stuck. You got it.

 

Now you have all these jazz aids, which I think are great as a teacher. But I’ve noticed that people don’t make the effort to commit as many things to memory. Fewer young players know a lot of tunes by heart. We really depended on our ears and now everything is visual. People don’t develop their ears as much as they could because they don’t need to because everything is right there.

 

I write on piano. Now I’ve got garageband, this is pathetic really, and had a friend help me set it up with a keyboard and show how it worked, but I haven’t used it yet. Obviously the advantage is that you can hear how everything works together especially with larger groups. That’s very difficult to do in my head. I’m not a very good piano player but I imagine what it’s going to sound like, which limits me. Black House is about as big a group that I would want to try and write for without a computer.

 

The limitation is a two edged sword. It limits me to how complex I can write because I can only imagine so much and I’m not a good enough piano player to play all the parts. The positive is that it keeps me from writing something that’s unplayable or overly complex. So there’s good and bad.

 

What have you been listening to?

 

I’ve been listening to Matt Otto’s “3ish.” I continue to pull out some of my classical favorites which is mostly 20^th century music. I love Samuel Barber. Sometimes I just pull out some Barber because it fills me with every emotion under the sun.

 

People always think jazz is groundbreaking and that’s bullshit. Some of it is but not very much. Most of it has already been done in classical music. It’s already been written. You’re just putting a different beat to it. Classical music, it’s just the harmonies, the melodies, the every thing. The way it all works is just so unbelievable. And those guys had no computers! They heard it in their heads or they see it on a score and know how it’s going to work. That just blows my mind.

 

Of course I continue to listen to music from Brazil. Always looking for new tunes to play or transcribe. There’s so much out there that I can’t keep up with all of it.

 

Since you’re one of the few people that do it, what does it mean to make a living playing jazz in Kansas City?

 

One of the reasons I’ve survived is that I realized early on that you need to strike a balance with what people will like and what you like. What I mean by “what people will like” I mean what would the average person on the street relate to. And what I mean by “what I like” is what feeds my soul and finding a way for those two things to coincide and often as possible. Sometimes you go out and play music for music’s sake and you know the risk. That’s what’s cool about Black House, there’s no thought whatsoever to any commercial value and that’s different than what I usually do.

 

I did do a band like that, the Uncertainty Principle” and we only played 4 or 5 times and it just didn’t fly; partly because we were always stuck on early nights of the week and partly because it was music that was less palatable to the average ear.

 

You talk about taking a risk, THAT is taking a risk. With Black House there is no risk There’s no money changing hands.

 

But that’s the beauty of it, there is no expectation commercially. Whereas with the Uncertainty Principle you still have to sell booze and that’s what it’s all about in the clubs. There is a boundary in Kansas City that if you want to make money to can’t go beyond a point musically. People won’t dig it.

 

There were years where there was very little jazz going on in this town. All top 40 bands or funk or R&B and I did that and I enjoyed it. I still like that music. And then that stuff went out and jazz came back. It’s a lot more of a jazz town now than it was in the 70’s or 80’s, which is great.

 

One thing that I’ve noticed about your groups in comparison to other groups is that each of your groups has a concept. A lot of what people do is they find a rhythm section and put their name on the group: the something quartet or the something quintet. With each of your groups: The Sons of Brazil, Stan Kessler’s TV, etc.. each have their own concept and I suppose you have that luxury since have so many, but it helps to sell the group.

 

Well it’s good for marketing. We live in a society that’s about making money. This goes back to having your eyes open in that you have to realize that if you want to make a living playing music you have to market your stuff. I haven’t consciously done that though. The Sons of Brazil just happened. We just loved that music and wanted to play it like Brazilians play it. With the TV band I just went up to Beena and asked, “if I came up with another band would you book it?” and she said ”sure.”

 

Which of your groups is your favorite?

 

Well I’d have to say the Sons of Brazil. I know every night that band’s going to gel. Every night the music’s going to be great. It’s the one thing I can depend on. Plus those guys are some of my best friends.

 

I think it’s funny that the one thing you can depend on is not jazz.

 

Oh but it is jazz.

 

It’s Brazilian music.

 

It’s Brazilian jazz.

 

Well what makes it jazz?

 

Because we improvise. Because we’re jazz players and we’re improvising on all these songs. It’s jazz because we’re playing solos.

 

So as long as it has improvised solos it’s jazz?

 

[laughs] Well yeah, to us it is.

 

As long as it’s played by jazz musicians it now jazz?

 

That’s kind of what it is. We think ourselves as American jazz musicians playing Brazilian music.

 

Well since you’ve mentioned this, how important is it for you to be identified as a jazz musician?

 

Well frankly I don’t like that.

You just self indentified yourself as a jazz musician!

But that’s one part of me. I would not want to confine myself as a jazz musician but in that context, yes. But it bothers me we people describe me as “this Stan Kessler he’s a jazz musician.” That pigeonholes me.

I understand that but you want to have it both ways.

I do.

People always want to use the word jazz depending on who they’re talking to and who’s in the room.

I don’t do that. In my groups I’m in that role as a jazz musician. But at a party I’d rather just be described as a musician. I understand that jazz musician is more descriptive. If I go play with a salsa or funk band I’m just a horn player. Here’s where it gets in the way. I lose work because people won’t call me because they think I wouldn’t do it because I’m a jazz snob. Some things are beneath me but I want to make that choice. [laughs] In Kansas City, as far as the media goes, it’s a positive thing to be known as a jazz musician.

 

You and I met through one of your classes, how you think education has changed the music and the musicians.

 

I asked one of my classes recently what is the relevance of school and I got every answer in the book. The relevance is that you’re made to learn things you wouldn’t have on your own. You make friendships and network. You learn about structure and discipline, whether or not you continue it after you leave school is another matter, but you’re exposed to it in school.

 

I think that in some respects education is there for its own sake and the things you learn for yourself are the just as valuable if not more valuable. In music you learn by doing. I think it’s important that jazz players get some classical training. It’s not that you can’t get there another way, because you can, I just think you’re more likely if you go through the rigorous classical part.

 

Alright one last question, how do you feel about the 18^th and Vine jazz district?

 

I think it’s been a positive. The Blue Room is great because it’s truly a showcase room, great stage, great sound, ok piano [laughs] I love that. The Gem has been having some killer groups.

 

Yeah I saw Shorter and SFJazz Collective play there. The best shows I’ve seen in Kansas City have been there.

 

Yeah it’s a great room.

 

But they fucked up the sound on the SFJazz Collective show and I couldn’t hear Joshua Redman. It was fine at the Shorter show though.

 

Well, I would say that sound at the Gem has been inconsistent. I’ve been there when it’s fine and when it’s not fine. I don’t think they really need much amplification in that room.

 

I think what’s a shame about the area, and I know they’ve tried, is that there is nothing else down there. It was great when the Peach Tree was there but I understand why they moved but that was heartbreaker. That area has always needed a place for people to hang out and eat. There’s so much potential down there and I know that some of it’s political and some of it’s financial. I don’t know all the ins and outs. I’d really like to see some more restaurants down there. Unfortunately there are still some people that think they can’t go down there because it’s too dangerous but that’s crazy. I’ve never a problem down there, EVER. I’ve never gotten a bad vibe.

 

It’s funny because I haven’t spent a whole lot of time down there but I read all this cloak and dagger about the place.

 

Well that’s certain publications, and if I want to know about that stuff I’ll just ask the people directly involved. I think there’s an agenda behind those stories. That the thing about the media in general is that the way you get people to pay attention to you is to say something outrageous.

 

Comments

[Russell]

ha ha lodestone... isn't that synonymous with albatross?

[Gary]

"F*****up the sound"?????? You kiss your Mother with that mouth???

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What is the difference between Jazz and Jazz Technique?
Next year i'm planning on taking Ballet,Jazz,and Technique.
I've never took jazz so would it be a good idea to take technique as well?
and whats the diff?

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What modes do I use to solo over what chords in Jazz?
In general, what modes do I use to solo over what chords in Jazz? Basically, what are some basic chords for each different mode that sound good when soloed over using that mode? And how do I tell what chords sound good with what mode? I am a guitarist.